Sterling Miller on knowing your place as an in-house lawyer.

In this episode of Lessons I Learned in Law Scott Brown speaks to Sterling Miller, author of the award-winning legal blog “Ten Things You Need to Know as In-House Counsel”. The blog could be a "how to" guide for In-House lawyers everywhere.
 
He is a three-time general counsel having served in that role at Silicon Valley-based Marketo Inc, including involvement in its sale to Adobe in 2019, and at Texas-based travel industry giants Sabre Corporation and Travelocity.com.

He is also the author of five books published by the American Bar Association and based on the blog.

Sterling shares the three lessons he has learned in law including:

• No-one is indispensable, so never get too comfortable and always keep grinding!
• Edit, be practical and ensure your written content is concise and easy to understand.
• Legal doesn’t run the business; the department exists to support the operation.

Follow Sterling Miller on LinkedIn or Twitter

Presented by Scott Brown of Heriot Brown Legal Recruitment.

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Transcript

Scott Brown  (0:02)  

Hi and welcome to Lessons I Learned in Law with me, Scott Brown, founder of Heriot Brown In-House Legal Recruitment, and a recovering lawyer. I left private practice and moved into legal recruitment to help lawyers find fulfilling careers in house. There in each episode of the podcast, get to hear my conversations with a top minds from the legal industry as they decipher their three key lessons that they've learned working in law. Then my guest today is sterling Miller is someone who's very well placed to dish out three lessons and I'm sure the hardest part for him today might be narrowing it down to just three. Sterling is a frequent industry speaker. He's a publisher of an award winning legal blog 10 Things you need to know as an in house counsel. And that's jam packed with useful information for in House lawyers covering a huge range of practical and soft skill matters. And they were asking for suggestions for guests for CDs to have the podcast his name came up time and time again. So I'm delighted to have him as a guest today. Hey Sterling, I got glad to be here. Thanks for joining now a bit of a bit of background on Sterling. He enjoyed a 30 year or he's enjoying a 30 year legal career. Scott still on it apologies is a three time general counsel. And he served in that role for Silicon Valley based Marketo. Seeing that through to its sale to Adobe in 2019. And also at Texas based travel industry giants CBRE Corp and travelocity.com are recently Sterling's returned to private practice to the Dallas office of Hilgers Gribben as Senior Counsel where he focuses on litigation, general corporate matters and data privacy. On the podcast. We also like to know more about the guests and learn learn more about their interests outside of law. So I'll be really keen to find out about Sterling's rock band and the various books he's got published along the years. But if we just kick off with lesson one Sterling,

Sterling Miller  (2:10)  

Lesson one of the three, I picked that No one, absolutely no one is indispensable. And anyone can be fired at any time for any reason to never, ever get too comfortable. And always keep grinding away if you're happy with your job, you know, treat it like a really valuable asset, because it can be taken away very quickly. And I've seen that happen to colleagues not only in the legal department, but other parts of the businesses I've been associated with. And you're kind of shocked, right? You think how could they possibly have let that person go? And then kind of dawns on you over time that it can happen? And you know what, the next day the sun comes up, company rocks on and things just keep moving? So don't get don't get too comfortable?

Scott Brown  (2:59)  

It's quite a bank to start off with quite a quite a US approach to employment law. Only know nothing. But yeah, but I guess it applies applies across the board. Where did you first? Where did you first learn that lesson?

Sterling Miller  (3:20)  

I learned first that my very first law firm. When I graduated law school in St. Louis, and there was a recession in the US economy, a small recession didn't last long. But things have been chugging along quite nicely. For several years, this would have been in the early 90s. And all of a sudden, one day, there's an announcement that, you know, several people good friends were were gone. And it was it was quite shocking. And then, as I went in house, probably the time that it really, really hit me. I was General Counsel at one of those companies. And a really good friend of mine who was a senior a senior officer in the company was just basically showing the door and our replacement brought in and not based on performance. Just a change that the board and I guess other executives felt was needed. total shock, not only to them, but to the rest of us who were sitting around the table. And then I thought wow, it doesn't matter how high up the food chain you get. You can always be reporting really, really, really changed a lot of things in terms of how I looked at, you know, being an employee, which is really, unless you own the business. 

Scott Brown  (4:43)  

That's what you are your employee is frightening to think of how dispensable people are doing as a trait within lawyers to think that the the advice is so valued or is it is it something that applies across the board? 

Sterling Miller  (4:55)  

That's a great question, Scott. My perspective is primarily from the legal The lawyer standpoint where I think lawyers tend to believe that they're so valuable, that how could anyone possibly do without them? That that probably permeates certainly here in the United States. And I think, at a law firm, if you've if you've ever worked at a law firm, and I know your reformed lawyer, but you know, lawyers, certainly the associates, you tend to be treated extremely well, because they want you to Bill, right, they're leveraging. They're leveraging your time, they're doing everything they can to chain you to your desk, and you're thinking, wow, and I must be awesome, because nothing bad could ever happen. And when you go in house, if you've come from, if you come from a firm, especially a large firm, I think you take that mentality in with you. And it's not necessarily the best trade, because I've seen in House lawyers who I've worked with, or who I've managed, who, you know, kind of take, take the job for granted. And what I had seen, certainly over the last 10, or 15 years, and you may see this as a recruiter as well as, for every in house opening, there's generally six or seven dozen, or a dozen of peep dozen people who want that job. So if you don't want it, and you don't want to fight for it, there's someone who will. And I always kept that in the back of my head that I was going to do as much as I could to make myself quote unquote, indispensable, even though I knew in the back of my head that no one really is but the more that you the more value that you bring to the table, the more effort that you bring, the more that you show that you want to be there that it's more than just punching the clock, so to speak, that you really care about the company and the people. Those things are factors when the decision makers are thinking about especially if there's let's say there's gonna be a round of layoffs. Right legals not immune. And they're thinking about who do we keep? A lot of times those No, that mentality, can trump even skill. So you can be the most skilled lawyer in the department. But if you act like you don't care, people think you don't care. And so there's there's a balance there, of course, but yeah, I think lawyers are probably as much as any profession, pretty prone to thinking that they're immune and field learning. Yeah, yeah. 

Scott Brown  (7:34)  

Yeah. Maybe it may be part of the part of the training, but at the same time, very prone to imposter syndrome as well.

Sterling Miller  (7:45)  

For that, I need I need a double shot.

Scott Brown  (7:50)  

You touched on your your move from practice to in house? What was the catalyst to that what made you what made you move in house?

Sterling Miller  (7:57)  

A normal path, but I so I had been practising at a firm for about six years. And I did, I enjoyed it. I really, I really did. But I got married, and my wife is from Dallas, which is where I am now we were we were living in St. Louis at the time. And we decided that we were going to move to be near one of the sets of potential grandparents. So I grew up in Nebraska. And I'm sure people know who are Dallas's but Nebraska is a state in the middle of the US where cows outnumber people. And so I was thinking of future opportunities. Dallas kind of beat out in Nebraska. And we just moved down and I I had worked with in House lawyers for several years. And I thought, Gee, I wonder I wonder if I could get a job in house. Just a bit of a lark. Actually, I knew I could get a job at a law firm. And I just contacted a bunch of companies in the Dallas area. And I ended up at American Airlines, which was just an awesome in house job. Your first job as an in house lawyer. It was it was truly I was truly fortunate to lay on their

Scott Brown  (9:12)  

thing at the first ever passion I've spoken to from Nebraska, I think

Sterling Miller  (9:18)  

it was only 25 people there. So

Scott Brown  (9:22)  

I'm doing well. I'll get right.

On to lesson two, talk me through.

Sterling Miller  (9:33)  

Sure. So the second lesson I learned as a young associate at a law firm, but I carried it with me through my entire career and I still believe in it. So my very first year I had an assignment to write a brief for a motion that we had filed in state court in Missouri. So in the US, there are federal courts and there are state courts and state courts tend to be a little different than the federal courts. Put it, I'll put it that way. So I wrote this beautiful 25 page memo, super well analysed all kinds of cases, footnotes cites all the things that you would want to see. And the partner that I wrote it for, brought it in and said, Wow, Sterling, this is really good. And then he proceeded to take the last 20 pages, rip them off and threw him in the trash can and said, No, state court judge is going to read more than five pages, you need to do it over and you need to tighten it up. So when I got over the initial shock of someone tearing up my beautiful piece of literature of legal literature, I realised that he was absolutely right, that there was a lot of fluff in there that it needed to be edited, I needed to distil it down to the, to the really what the issues were. And I and I was able to do it, which surprised me some to some extent, to get it to five pages. But I really learned the power of editing, which is probably the most important skill a lawyer can have. Close second is the power of just writing things that people anyone can read and understand. So keeping it simple, keeping it practical, just telling, you know what you need up front early, getting to the getting to the heart of the issue early in the document and not making people wade through pages and pages of tax no matter how well written and research they may be. Especially as an in house lawyer, you know, the executives just don't have time or the patience for that. And if you're writing documents, as an in house lawyer that have footnotes and secondary sources, you're probably not doing it right to rethink how you're writing and presenting issues to the to the business. So that lesson two is edit, and be practical. And that has served me well, for many, many, many years.

Scott Brown  (12:03)  

Good to hear the dramatic effects of tearing the pages up and I can

Sterling Miller  (12:06)  

still hear it, I can still hear the ripping sound of the paper and

Scott Brown  (12:13)  

stuck with you had the best way to learn is that been something you've you've instilled in your team or attracted so as a culture?

Sterling Miller  (12:23)  

Absolutely, yes. Any any team that I managed, we focused a lot on how do you write? And how do you present issues to to the business. And it's very different than if you're at a law firm. And a lot of a lot of time is spent when we would hire people from law firms and bring them in and their first assignment, I would always come in and say, Let's go through your paper, whatever your email, before you send it, let me see your email, let me see your presentation or whatever it was going to be and we would go through it. But the key is you can't just and one of the things that I left out when I talked about my experiences the youngest group yet is that partner also spent time with me. Redlining and editing and explaining how to write like a lawyer. So it wasn't just do it over that was before dramatic effect. And I would would then still do if I have the opportunity to spend time with young lawyers and show them you know, what, what's the difference between passive and active voice? How can you make this clear? You know, what's a topic sentence I don't know, people are teaching in English grammar these days, but not paragraph structure. So me be a result of our social media culture. Spelling matters, grammar matters, all those things, but

Scott Brown  (13:48)  

just something you test interviewer when you're when you're interviewing people, for your team.

Sterling Miller  (13:53)  

On occasion, we will ask them for written work product. The problem with that is if you ask them for something, they're gonna give you their best writing, and they may have edited it, run it through grammerly or whatever. So it's not really a true test to have someone write on the spur of the moment. I haven't I've never done that. That's a really interesting question. Maybe to do that. So generally, no, I don't. I don't really focus on that I assume based on where they are their position that they probably have the basics down and we can teach them the rest

Scott Brown  (14:27)  

is something that we're as recruiters not to not to talk too much about about that. But we're always we specialise in recruiting lawyers in house so it's it's something you're trying to put your finger on the magic potion for what makes a good in house Lawyer by having a conversation with someone not not delving into the theory of law or the the actual substance to that too much more than so on their CV but really how someone delivers even a picture of themselves, what their experience looks like. You can get for how they would interact with a business, I think

Sterling Miller  (15:03)  

you get, I don't know about you, Scott, but I could talk to someone and within five, five to 10 minutes, you will know if it's worth doing the other 2020 minutes or not. Yeah, you may still do that I heard to see.

Scott Brown  (15:18)  

Hopefully this conversation doesn't fall into that category. But I think yeah, I think it's, I think it's truly you get a feel for it, certainly from private practice mindset versus someone who would who would get working in house, I think there's a, there's a different mindset and a different shift. Yeah. I agree. That comes with that. And it's partly personality driven. And so you touched on that last lesson that you touched on editing, and the importance of editing, which brings us quite nicely into your literary pursuits. So your blog 10, things you need to know, as an in house counsel? How did that come around?

Sterling Miller  (15:59)  

Well, I'm going on year eight, actually, this month, so we'll be starting the eighth year of it. And I started in late 2014, I had a very fortunate, we took Sabre public in 2014. And I was able to walk away, which is I know, not everyone has that opportunity. So it was really, really pretty, pretty awesome. I have one last speaking engagement that I did here in Dallas, and afterwards, there was a cocktail party. And I was talking with some young in House lawyers, and they were asking me all these questions about, you know, how do I do this? What should I do if I want to be general counsel? And I start? Well, here's some things to consider. And they're writing them down Scott, on napkins and pieces of paper. Well, if anyone's going to write this down, I should. And I had a technique that I used worked for me when when I was General Counsel, we'd have a new issue come up, we get people in the room, and we would have a whiteboard. And we would go what are the 10 things we need to know about this go? And we would try to just figure out what are all the different things we're going to have to figure out. And I just adapted that into the blog. And that was the number 10. And what I decided to do was just take a topic that I had come across as an in house lawyer and write 10 Things you need to know about it. And I thought I would do it for a year, you know, my mom would read it, maybe a few stragglers would come along. I never imagined in my wildest dreams that I would still be doing it or it will turn out to be as popular as it is turned out. And the only thing I can think of is because I write it from having sat in the chair, that that is a different perspective than a lot of bloggers bring who tend to be with law firms. And they tend to write from a law firm viewpoint. And I like to write obviously, like, Man, if I was if I was sitting in that chair today. And the CEO came down and asked me, What are we going to do about this trade secret breach? What would I need to know? Right? And here are the 10 things. There's probably more than 10. But I blocked myself in by the title of the blog. So it's all weekend. Yeah. So it started. And it's still going

Scott Brown  (18:28)  

as amazing as a lot of a lot of the, as I said, a lot of people had done, your name had come up. And I know, I know a lot of people in my network anyway, read the blog with interest and have shared conversations or shared conversations about it and shared articles, etc, that have come up there. So it's great. It's a great mix of practical and informative across across a whole number of legal issues. So anyone that hasn't checked out should definitely do so. And it's it's it's been the basis and the foundation of books that you've had published by the American Bar Association.

Sterling Miller  (19:01)  

Yeah. So the several years ago, the American Bar Association reached out and said, Hey, we love the blog. Would you be interested in doing a book about that, you know, based on the blog? Sure. I'd love to do that. So the first two books I wrote for the American Bar Association are based on the blog based on but I kind of had to update the entries. We reorganise them, we put them in different categories. So while the foundation is the blog, it's not just republishing the blogs, you know, whole and that was a lot of fun. And then he called me last year and said, Would you be willing to do a third book i Whoa, yeah. But I don't want to do one on the blog. And they said, Well, what do you want it? What would you like to write about? And so I've been getting this question a lot. And that is how do you show the value of the legal department and I would like to write on that, and I had done one blog on that topic. And so I took that as kind of the foundation. And this month, the third book, how do you show the value of the legal department more than just a cost centre, very long title is coming out. And it's pretty much written from scratch, though I do pull some of the elements of the blog in. But the vast majority of it is really sitting down and thinking about the times when I was asked that question, or how I would answer that question, hypothetically, if someone asked me the different things that you need to do to show value, and the biggest mistake that I've seen over time, Scott is a lot of lawyers try to answer that question with just numbers. So they try to make it quantitative. The problem is value is subjective. And you have to think about the qualitative just as much. So what's the perception of the department? How do you win the hearts and minds? And I write about both of those parts of the equation? Because you have to have both to do it. So I'm really excited about that. That's coming out again, sometime sometime this month. I'm not sure if it's next week or the week after, but I saw the cover, which is really cool. Really excited. So it's,

Scott Brown  (21:20)  

yeah, where will people be able to get ahold of that?

Sterling Miller  (21:24)  

Typically, it's only available on the American Bar Association website. It's, it's available as an ebook. Usually, at some point, it goes to Amazon. But I have that people write me who can't get it. And we have found a way to get them a copy in Australia, and other parts of Europe, in Asia. If you really want a copy, or reach out to me, we'll figure out

Scott Brown  (21:49)  

how the other books that you've had published their extracurricular or outside of outside of law. What inspired those so one on one on NFL and one on on cooking?

Sterling Miller  (22:01)  

Yes, I've have a cookbook and a book on on how the National Football League so American football, how that football league evolved over 100 years. I'm very passionate about American football. It just felt like something kind of fun to do again, just bits and pieces here and there. I started putting that one together. And then a couple years ago, our oldest daughter we have two daughters our oldest graduated from college and I love to cook and I like to use a slow cooker which some people call a crock pot to cook it's there's a lot of cool things that you can do with it. And she had asked me to put together some of the recipes and as I started to put it all together, I Oh, wow, I have enough for a cookbook. And I've never written a good book. So how do you do this and it is actually turned out to be amazingly popular. I am surprised by the messages that I get from people on Facebook or on emails that hey, I bought your book and there'll be loved this this recipe so there may be a second one coming down the road here we'll we'll see. My favourite is green chilli pessoais which is a new Mexican pork stew made with green chilies and harmony which is corn basically. And it is awesome and the best thing about a slow cooker because it takes eight or nine hours for things to cook is the aroma that you get when you're about five or six hours just builds the house yeah and it smells awesome so if you don't you have to buy the book but again a slow cooker and find some find some things in your family will think you're a hero and it's very which is which is the great part super easy in the food is phenomenal.

Scott Brown  (23:56)  

Sounds good. Let's check that sounds that sounds good. Got my mouth watering and they're just not going to cover your your rock band but that the NFL NFL is something that I I've tried to watch I can't get my head around the rules. I've got friends that are into it but on this subject of of your music pursuits as well. what's your what's your what's been your favourite ever NFL halftime performance?

Sterling Miller  (24:26)  

Well has to be it would have to be Tom Petty and the Heartbreakers always been a big fan of his. And when he Bay played I just I thought that was just spectacular. But I remember the days when it was up with people and they had they had a tribute to Carol Channing. NFL figured out that that wasn't going to cut it any longer. And yeah, Michael Jackson was actually the first time they did a real what you would consider kind of modern halftime show and now That's become the standard and they're always trying to top it.

Scott Brown  (25:03)  

Yeah, yeah. So one upmanship every year, isn't it? Yeah. Every year. Yep. Yeah. I seen Tom Petty at Hyde Park actually not not long before he passed.

Sterling Miller  (25:13)  

Yeah. Yeah, what so many great songs? Yeah, phenomenal. And I know you know NFL is strange to you, Scott. But same with football soccer to me. Let me say thank God for Titleist so because now I can understand a lot more.

Scott Brown  (25:32)  

I'll invest I'll invest some time definitely in an NFL

Sterling Miller  (25:39)  

league. I was big fan of Wigan way back. They got the drop, I think twice now. Yeah. Know what league they're in? Yeah.

Scott Brown  (25:49)  

I think they're probably still. There's there's a bit of crossover, but I'll get I'll check out the book in.

Lesson three,

Sterling Miller  (26:07)  

lesson three. So I was I was in house pretty early in my career, and was in this big business meeting with lots of lots of senior executives. I was obviously a backbencher. And the CEO of the company was asking some of the business leaders about I can't remember exactly what it was. But they started saying, Well, you know, legals said, we can't do this. And legal said, You can't do that. And legal, and he stopped them. And he said, Wait a minute, guys, legal doesn't run the fucking business. We do I don't give a shit. What do you want? And I first I was just shocked right at the bluntness of that statement. But then it sank in that he was absolutely right. Legal doesn't run the business, we are there to advise, we're there to lay out options, we are there to be a partner, we're there to help them think but at the end of the day, the business people that we support, you get to make the decisions. And I had seen way too often in my career, lawyers who take the easy route and just say, No, you can't do that. I would tell my team, the only time we're saying no guys is if it's criminal, or someone can die. Otherwise, you know, we need to make sure the right person is making the decision. So if it's a $20 million risk, you can't have the frontline manager saying we're going to do it, but the CEO can, the board can. But otherwise, you know, we'll advise we'll say why you know why that's not a good idea. But at the end of the day, the business gets to make the call, and then we fall in line and we do everything we possibly can to make that decision happen with the least amount of least amount of risk to the business. And that is the most important lesson I've ever learned. In house lawyer.

Scott Brown  (28:01)  

Good sound advice. A couple of questions on how did that play into the morals and ethical guest ethical position of in house counsel?

Sterling Miller  (28:12)  

Well, email most most businesses, at least the businesses that I've been associated with I, I was very fortunate and never came across an ethical or moral conundrum, they were always trying to operate the business in the right way for the benefit of the shareholders for the benefit of the employees, trying to do the right thing by their customers. But if, you know, the business says, you know, we want to sign this contract, even though it has unlimited liability, we understand what that means Sterling. And normally we like liability capped. But if that's what we want to do, we're going to do it. But I was never put in a position where it was something like, Hey, we know this is so shady, that it really brings the ethics of the company in question. I think if you're faced with a situation like that, you know, it really has to be a conundrum of not just the surface ethics question, but something that really goes to the core of is this business, you know, really operating in the right way. And then as an in house lawyer, it's it's it's my job, ultimately, if I think something is really, really the bad decision. If I wasn't the General Counsel, I would take it to the General Counsel. Now if I was the general counsel, and I thought we may need to reconsider this. I would go to the CEO. And if I really, really, really thought even the CEO, maybe was compromised on this. I would go to the audit committee of the board of directors or the chairman of the board of directors. And by that point, he had been told, we hear you but this is what we're going to do. Then I could either resign or I could go Okay, I understand, here's how I think we can best implement this to minimise the risk to the company. But at some point, you know, those are really those are really your options. But fortunately, the things that I'm talking about, I never, never had never had to get to that level of moral fibre, so to speak. Yeah,

Scott Brown  (30:16)  

not good. Do you see that being a guess, being a business enabler? In saying yes. Is that the is that the key to giving? Providing value as a as an in house legal function?

Sterling Miller  (30:29)  

Yes, absolutely. Finding, finding ways to say yes, even if it's yes, but I hear what you want to hear what you want to do and how you want to do it. If we do it this way, I think we can still get to the same place. But there's a lot of benefits here. But it's, it's bringing all of your creativity, and not having your knee jerk reaction, like, wow, that's just the stupidest idea ever, you can still think that in the back of your head. But when you're, when you're talking to the business is like, okay, let's think about this a little bit. I think we can get there. Here are some other ideas or give me 24 hours, and let's read let's meet and let me let me tell you what I think. Right? But if you just say no, not going to do it, you're, you're just going to get a bad reception from the business. And you're going to be viewed as the Department of No, doctor, no, you pick whatever, you know, whatever colloquialism you want. And you don't want that because you want the business to come to you. And if they think they're just going to get shut down without any real thought, by the legal department, they're going to start avoiding you. And now you're in the worst of all worlds where you don't know what's going on, in the business until it's too late. And if it's too late, it's probably truly too late and bad things are gonna happen for the business. And that's, that's, that's the thing you really want to you really want to minimise it comes down to my job is how do I enhance value creation? How do I minimise value destruction? And if I can, if I can keep those two primary goals in mind as I go through, then I'm adding value to the business. And the business is gonna come to me they're gonna pull me in, they're gonna want to partner with me. And that's, that should be my goal as an in house lawyer.

Scott Brown  (32:12)  

Yeah. Say yes. And just caveat, caveat.

Sterling Miller  (32:19)  

Probably get there. But let's think about it some more.

Scott Brown  (32:23)  

Nice. Have You Ever Have you ever been tempted to or been drawn to move over into commercial position where you're you're maybe taking those key decisions? Has it been something that's drawn you into a non non legal role?

Sterling Miller  (32:37)  

No, I truly love being a lawyer. I knew I wanted to be a lawyer when I was eight years old. And we were playing the game life. I don't know if you ever played that game, Scott, and you could buy stocks. I thought that was the coolest thing in the world. And I how do you how who, who creates stocks, and my dad told me Well, lawyers do that. And I go, that's what I want to be. So I have never, ever had temptation to be on the business side. The only slight variation to that is not only on my senior counsel now for Hildreth grave, and I'm also the CEO of the law firm. So I run the law firm on a day to day basis, which is kind of a business thing, but I still am a lawyer first. So I do both of those. But I've married my, I guess awesome. I've learned through osmosis of all these things that how you how to run a business, and I can bring that to the table now. But I don't I don't want to be a business person and never, never have been

Scott Brown  (33:36)  

cool. Well, sounds Yeah. Sounds like you're you're truly inspiring in that way to other lawyers, because it's often the grass is greener, looking looking for something, something more or something else. So

Sterling Miller  (33:48)  

yeah. And some people, they want to do that. And I've had lawyers who work for me who have gone over to the to the business side. And that's great that I know, then I know there's a smart, capable person over there. I love I love that. I just I just never wanted to do it.

Scott Brown  (34:04)  

Yeah, cool. I could talk all afternoon, but

Sterling Miller  (34:06)  

probably

Scott Brown  (34:09)  

through those lessons. And yeah, I would encourage everyone to check out and subscribe. If that's if that's the word. I don't know.

Sterling Miller  (34:17)  

Yeah, follow the blog. If you go to the blog, 10 things dotnet. You know, you'll you'll be able to follow it.

Scott Brown  (34:26)  

Share the book, share that share the video, at least at least

Sterling Miller  (34:29)  

one more year, at least maybe maybe longer. We'll see I haven't run out of things to write about and people give me ideas all the times.

Scott Brown  (34:36)  

So yeah, keep keep going. Definitely. So thanks so much for taking the time out and joining me today Sterling. It's been great to chat and hear about your your lessons distilled into into three. Good luck with the launch of the book in the next couple of weeks. And we'll look out for that and we'll share we'll share links on the on the podcast so people can check. I appreciate that.

Sterling Miller  (34:56)  

Thanks. My pleasure. Thanks for having me. And thanks for everyone. suggested My name at still amazes me and it wasn't my mom so that even though

Scott Brown  (35:05)  

I don't think so? I don't think so.

Sterling Miller  (35:08)  

No, she's out there

Scott Brown  (35:11)  

to be perfect, and thank you for listening to lessons I learned in law. And for more info on all of my guests head to heriotbrown.com/ podcast. I'm Scott Brown. See you next time.